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Mormonism vs. Christianity: Dr. Mohler Lays It Straight That Mormons Are Not Christians (Part 1)

Dr. Al Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, debated on Belief.net against Mormon author, Oscar Scott Card, about whether Mormonism should be considered as one of the historical orthodox Christian sects or not.This topic of debate is not new, but has resurfaced in light of the presidential hopeful, Mitt Romney, who is a Mormon. Movies like The 3 Godfathers, starring John Wayne, heaped Catholicism, Christianity and Mormonism into one religious ecclectic bowl, like mixing a Chinese chow mein dish, Italian spaghetti noodles and sauce, and American chicken noodle soup into one huge bowl. While I enjoyed the movie (and I’m a big John Wayne fan), the ecclectic religious mix convoluted the doctrinal truths that while one did historically result from the other – Christianity resulted from Catholicism as spaghetti resulted from chow mein – Mormonism, like chicken noodle, while bearing some resemblence to the others, is a completely different religion altogether.

Here is Dr. Mohler’s straight-to-the-point explanation of Mormonism not being orthodox Christian.

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Mormonism Is Not Christianity

By Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr.

Are Mormons “Christians” as defined by traditional Christian orthodoxy? The answer to that question is easy and straightforward, and it is “no.” Nevertheless, even as the question is clear, the answer requires some explanation.

The issue is clearly framed in this case. Christianity is rightly defined in terms of “traditional Christian orthodoxy.” Thus, we have an objective standard by which to define what is and is not Christianity.

We are not talking here about the postmodern conception of Christianity that minimizes truth. We are not talking about Christianity as a mood or as a sociological movement. We are not talking about liberal Christianity that minimizes doctrine nor about sectarian Christianity which defines the faith in terms of eccentric doctrines. We are talking about historic, traditional, Christian orthodoxy.

Once that is made clear, the answer is inevitable. Furthermore, the answer is made easy, not only by the structure of Christian orthodoxy (a structure Mormonism denies) but by the central argument of Mormonism itself - that the true faith was restored through Joseph Smith in the nineteenth century in America and that the entire structure of Christian orthodoxy as affirmed by the post-apostolic church is corrupt and false.

In other words, Mormonism rejects traditional Christian orthodoxy at the onset - this rejection is the very logic of Mormonism’s existence. A contemporary observer of Mormon public relations is not going to hear this logic presented directly, but it is the very logic and message of the Book of Mormon and the structure of Mormon thought. Mormonism rejects Christian orthodoxy as the very argument for its own existence, and it clearly identifies historic Christianity as a false faith.

So, what does Mormonism reject? The orthodox consensus of the Christian church is defined in terms of its historic creeds and doctrinal affirmations. Two great doctrines stand as the central substance of that consensus. Throughout the centuries, the doctrines concerning the Trinity and the nature of Christ have constituted that foundation, and the church has used these definitional doctrines as the standard for identifying true Christianity.

The Mormon doctrine of God does not correspond to the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. Mormonism rejects the central logic of this doctrine (one God in three eternal persons) and develops its own doctrine of God - a doctrine that bears practically no resemblance to Trinitarian theology. The Mormon doctrine of God includes many gods, not one. Furthermore, Mormonism teaches that we are what God once was and are becoming what He now is. That is in direct conflict with Christian orthodoxy.

Contemporary Mormonism presents the Book of Mormon as “another testament of Jesus Christ,” but the Jesus of the Book of Mormon is not the only begotten Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, or the one through whose death on the cross we can be saved from our sins.

Normative Christianity is defined by the Apostles Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the other formulas of the doctrinal consensus. These doctrines are understood by Christians to be rooted directly within the Bible and rightly affirmed by all true believers in all places and throughout all time. As one leading figure in the early church explained, the true faith is recognized and affirmed everywhere, always, and by all (Vincent of Lérins defined the orthodox tradition as those truths affirmed “ubique, semper, ab omnibus”).

The major divisions within Christian history (Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism) disagree over important issues of doctrine, but all affirm the early church’s consensus concerning the nature of Christ and the Trinitarian faith. These are precisely what Mormonism rejects.

Without doubt, Mormonism borrows Christian themes, personalities, and narratives. Nevertheless, it rejects what orthodox Christianity affirms and it affirms what orthodox Christianity rejects. It is not Christianity in a new form or another branch of the Christian tradition. By its own teachings and claims, it rejects that very tradition.

Richard John Neuhaus, a leading Roman Catholic theologian, helpfully reminds us that “Christian” is a word that “is not honorific but descriptive.” Christians do respect the Mormon affirmation of the family and the zeal of Mormon youth in their own missionary work. Christians must affirm religious liberty and the right of Mormons to practice and share their faith.

Nevertheless, Mormonism is not Christianity by definition or description.

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This article originally posted at Belief.net’s blog on June 28, 2007. Dr. Mohler recaps his arguments in his blog on June 29, 2007.

June 29, 2007 - Posted by Will | 2007 Archive, Evangelism, History, Theology | | 33 Comments

33 Comments »

  1. I read the debate on Beliefnet.com and to be honest, I thought the Mormon won the debate, not that I am a Mormon. To say that Evangelical Christianity is to based on the historical councils and declarations of faith is absurd. Mormons are Christian because they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Because they’re interpretation of what that means is slightly different doesn’t make them non-Christians. Does Dr. Mohler honestly believe that God is going to send them to Hell because they don’t believe in a Trinity? Again, this is absurd. It’s no wonder Evangelicals are so anemic in winning Mormons. Mormonism isn’t about whether they’re Christian or not, it’s about whether the things that Joseph Smith said happened to him actually happened. It’s interesting that Evangelicals put down Mormons for filtering their faith in Jesus through the teachings of one man; Joseph Smith, but see no problem in doing it themselves, filtering their beliefs through the teachings of Paul. They may correctly question Joseph’s testimony, but seem to have no trouble accepting Paul’s. Hmmn..I wonder who’s the more deceived?

    Comment by William Schmitt | August 16, 2008 | Reply

  2. Schmitt, the doctrine of the Trinity is one of the essential doctrines that sets Christians apart from heresies. Jehovah’s Witnesses also deny the Trinity. Gnosticism denied the Trinity. Apollonarianism denied the Trinity. Nestorianism denied the Trinity. Since the very beginning, Satan’s attack has been to delute God into something less. And deluting the deity of Christ is Satan’s goal.

    Once the doctrine of the Trinity is rejected and denied, all other doctrines follow. If Christ is not God, then the Bible is not to be taken as God’s inerrant and infallible word. That is why the Mormon’s reject the Bible as God’s word and subscribe instead to 3 other books (the Book of Mormons, the Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrine & Covenants). If Christ is not God but merely “a god,” then man’s redemption from sin is incomplete because all of creation fell after Adam’s sin. And if Christ is a created being rather than the Creator Himself, then He too is imperfect. Thus, man has no hope for salvation in a Christ who is not fully divine, yet fully human.

    Dr. Mohler doesn’t just believe that God is going to send Mormons to hell because they don’t believe in the Triune God, but everyone who rejects Christ as Lord God Almighty.

    I hope, Schmitt, that you come to know this Jesus who is the Christ – fully God and fully human – as found in the pages of Scripture and by the grace of God.

    Comment by Will | August 16, 2008 | Reply

  3. Thanks for your reply, and call me Bill. Sorry, but I can’t agree with you on this one. The doctrine of the triune God is not that important. I say this as one who used to “defend the faith” against groups like Mormons, until I came to see that the ones I was defending weren’t any different. You seem to think that because some groups deny the concept of the trinity they are denying Jesus, this is just plain poor thinking. God is not a doctrinal God, he isn’t as concerned with right thinking about him, he is more concerned with those who obey him (or at least try to). And to be historically honest, the trinity was not there “in the beginning”, the Jews (which Jesus and his followers were)did not worship a triune God. The Mormons do not reject the Bible as the word of God, Joseph Smith actually used it more than he did the Book of Mormon. Again, you miss the point, Mormons are deceived in that they believe that Joseph Smith actually had the experiences he claimed. You do the same with Paul. The early leaders of the church; Peter, James and John had a lot of problems with Paul. If you’d be honest, you’d have to admit that your faith is really placed in a book, and not in God. I know I had to come to that realization.

    I appreciate your response to my first post and look forward to hearing from you again. Bill

    Comment by William Schmitt | August 17, 2008 | Reply

  4. The Nicean Creed teaches doctrine as perceived by men. Therefore does not set the standard for the concept of who or what God and his Son Jesus Christ are.

    Comment by James | August 17, 2008 | Reply

  5. Bill: Your arguments and presuppositions are so full of false information and errors, it is hard for me to see where to best start responding. All I can say is that God is just, holy, and perfect. We, mankind, were created as the apex of creation, but due to sin (rebellion against God), we are now fallen and on our way to hell. Christ, the Son of God, died on the cross so sinners would be set free from sin and death. I pray that you may come to know the truth of that, repent of your sins, and receive Christ as your Lord and Savior.

    James: Not just the Nicean Creed, but all creeds, confessions, and statements of faith were drafted as perceived by men. That perception may or may not be correct. Therefore, the validity of these creeds, confessions, and statements of faith are not so much to be relied solely on the perception of men, but on the word of God itself. It is the word of God that sets the standard of who and what God and His Son, Jesus Christ, are. Creeds, confessions, and statements of faith were drafted by men with similar perceptions and beliefs, who were in agreement over key doctrines, coming together.

    Comment by Will | August 18, 2008 | Reply

  6. Joseph Smith didn’t write the Book of Mormon, Mormon wrote it. And so our faith is in that God delivered the book into Joseph’s hands for a translation. So the perfect test of faith raises the question;
    Would you have believed the words of Jesus if you had lived in his day? It is true that there were many people who saw and conversed with Jesus Christ that still didn’t believe him, And as the Apostles went to spread the words of Christ they had no purse or script, They could only testify to the people through his spirit.
    The answer is, if you believe in the Book of Mormon then you would have believed that Jesus was and is the Christ, The only begotten son of God, The Mediator to the great plan of redemption, and the advocate with the Father.
    It is unequaled with any other testament of Jesus in that belief in it’s divine purpose takes complete faith, You can’t prove it, and you can’t disprove it.
    But only by faith in the lord are these truths made known to us, We are no longer left to wander through life without knowing the master’s plan for eternal happines, So we declare boldly that the heavens are opened and the gosple keys have again been restored to the earth, The evidence is so well documented, he has bound himself by solemn covenant to give unto us the the blessings of heaven according to our obediance to his gosple, Oh Remember, Remember that these things are true, For the lord God has revealed these eternal truths unto us, in the name of Jesus Christ.

    Comment by James | August 19, 2008 | Reply

  7. Will- Thank you for your response, though your declaration that my statement is “so full of false statements and error” seems a tad arrogant. As you said, creeds, confessions and statements of faith are all attempts by men to come to a conclusion about what is true. The Bible became the “Word of God” through this very process. My point is that the doctrine of the trinity is derived from the Bible, but it is not taught in the Bible, and people should not be condemned because they don’t read it the same way that you do. If it was so easy to come to a conclusion on what the Bible says there wouldn’t be thousands of different churches in existence, which gives the Mormon Church so much ammunition. In reply to James; it is strange that if Will came to believe the Book of Mormon was true he wouldn’t have to change any of his beliefs. The doctrines that set Mormonism apart from Evangelical Christianity are not taught in the Book of Mormon, but were added later by Joseph Smith. I’m not arguing for the Book of Mormon, only stating that Mormons do not get their doctrine from it.

    Comment by William Schmitt | August 20, 2008 | Reply

  8. Bill, you are contradicting yourself:
    1. First, I pointed out earlier that the rejection of the doctrine of Trinity also ties with it rejections of other key doctrines, including the rejection of the Bible as God’s word, which is what Mormons do. You disagreed with that statement by claiming that “The Mormons do not reject the Bible as the word of God,” but now make the statement that “The Bible became the ‘Word of God’ through this very process [of man creating creeds, confessions and statements].” The bible is the “word of God” because God Himself created it through human instrumentation (e.g. Moses, Paul, Peter, King David, etc.), prior to any creeds/confessions. Creeds and confessions merely serve to confirm that belief, not create that belief.

    2. The Doctrine of the Trinity is clearly taught in Scripture. I’m not going to use this small comment field to start on a whole discourse of it. Any google search can pull up a plethora of resources. But you believe that God is not a doctrinal God, whereas I do believe that God is a doctrinal God. And then you turn around and say that my concept of the doctrine of Trinity (e.g. my concept of a doctrinal God) does not have to change by joining Mormonism. Let me say something, child of Satan: repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who is the great God, I AM (Ex 3:14; John 8:58). Jesus was the same yesterday, today and tomorrow (Heb 13:8), which means he was never created, but has always co-existed with the Father and the Spirit. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega – the Almighty One (Rev 1:8). Every creation came into being through Christ (John 1:3), which makes Him an eternal being who was never created Himself, unlike the Mormon’s claim that Jesus was created.

    Let me make this very plain and simple: Mormonism has more in common with Satan than it does with the God of the Bible. Mormonism, for some reason or another, desires to be associated with Christianity, but rejects the doctrines of historic Christianity. If Mormons do not like the doctrines of Christianity, then call yourselves something else. Why the desire to be associated with Christians who clearly believe differently? Which is what we, Christians, are doing with you Mormons.

    If you had questions about why Mormonism and Christianity difference from each other, I’d let you continue posting. But you have strong convictions. My blogsite is not a site to promote Mormonism but biblical Christianity. Thus, you are banned from any further postings of comments, along with James.

    Comment by Will | August 21, 2008 | Reply

  9. I see what you are saying Bill and you are right about the fact that people will never agree on interperting the words of the bible, this is why I believe that we need Prophets to guide us in this superfast age of misinformation. Without continued prophecy, the church drifts into apostacy.
    And people lumping us into groups and sticking lables like “Cult” on us isn’t very Christ like.

    Comment by James | August 21, 2008 | Reply

  10. James, you don’t need Prophets to guide you. You need God, Himself, to guide you through His written word – the Holy Scripture. Prophets, in and of themselves, apart from the word of God, are nothing. Jesus and Paul warns against false prophets who reject God’s word in favor of doctrines of their own creation. And that is what Mormons are – false prophets who have created their own doctrines by twisting the doctrines of the Bible. As my blog site is for the purpose of historic Christianity, and specifically Reformed Calvinistic Christianity, not the promotion of the heretical doctrines of Moroni, you are banned from any further postings. May you come to know the God of the Bible, James, by the grace of God.

    Comment by Will | August 21, 2008 | Reply

  11. We state in our eighth artical of faith; We believe the bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the book of Mormon to be the word of God.
    You can talk about doctrines as precieved by men, but I speak of the Jesus who taught humility, peace, and meekness; to love your brethren despite doctrinal differences, And if you salute your brethren only then what good have you, do not even the publicans the same?
    And let me help you interpert (John 1:3)

    “In the beginning was the gospel preached through the son, and the gospel was the word, and the word was with the son, and the son was with God, and the Son was of God.”

    Comment by James | August 21, 2008 | Reply

  12. James:
    First, your erroneous translation is an attempt of John 1:1, not John 1:3.
    Second, your translation of John 1:1 from the Greek text is horrible. You’ve clearly added clauses and prepositions that do not exist in the original Greek text.

    “En arche en ha Logos. Kai ha Logos en pros ton Theon, kai Theos en ha Logos.”
    “In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

    Where in the world you get “preached,” “the Gospel was the word,” “the word was with the son,” the preposition “of” in the final clause, and all the other convoluted distortions, are at a loss to me other than that you clearly imagined them up yourself.

    - Both you and Bill are serious heretics who like to think that Scripture is based on one’s interpretation, but 2 Peter 1:20-21 refutes both of your claims.

    - Both you and Bill are serious heretics who like to add on top of the Bible the Mormon Bible, but 2 Tim 3:16 is clear that the Bible is from God’s very inspiration. Adding the Mormon Bible causes you to violate Rev 22:18. The Mormon Bible is not from God, but from the demon, Moroni.

    This conversation now ends. You are a heretic who better repent very soon, for the Kingdom of God is at hand!

    Comment by Will | August 21, 2008 | Reply

  13. Regarding Rev 22:18, the Bible is a collection of sacred writings that were compiled into book format centuries after the death of the original writers. When the Apostle John wrote these verses, the Bible as we know it today had not been compiled yet. Therefore, his words could not possibly be applied to the entire collection of writings today known as the Bible. John was referring specifically to the Book of Revelation.

    Additionally, even though Revelation is traditionally placed last in the Bible, most Biblical scholars do not believe that it was the last book to be written among the compiled records contained in the Bible. If your reasoning is true, then those Books would also have to be removed from the Bible and discarded as false.

    Also, please note the very similar wording by Moses found in Deuteronomy 4:2:

    “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.”

    If your interpretation of the Revelation verses were correct, then they would have to be applied here as well. In which case, the Old Testament after Deuteronomy and the entire New Testament would have to be discarded as false.

    Comment by Mormon DNA | September 18, 2008 | Reply

  14. I think what is sad about this is that Latter-day Saints and Orthodox Christians could so much good together if we could just all recognize that we interpret scripture a little differently and move on. We all believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the only way to return to the Father. We all believe that we must have faith in Him and strive to do as He asks us. Of course there are differences, some subtle and some major in what that looks like, and yes, there are major differences in some of our doctrines, but wow, with all that Satan is throwing at the world today, why do the believers in Christ need to make his job easier by fighting eachother?

    Comment by Lisa B. | September 21, 2008 | Reply

  15. Lisa, Christians and Mormons do NOT believe in the same Jesus Christ. Thus, Christians do not consider Mormons the same “believers in Christ” as themselves. With all that Satan is throwing at the world today, INCLUDING the heretical teachings of Mormonism trying to masqueraded itself as Christianity, Christians are doing exactly what you are suggesting: not fighting within itself but fighting the enemy, Satan.

    Comment by Will | September 21, 2008 | Reply

  16. Go Will! As another resource: http://www.contenderministries.org/mormonism.php

    Comment by Charlie Clark | September 21, 2008 | Reply

  17. Taking it alone, it would seem that Revelation 22:18 may speak only of the book of Revelation; however, the verse warns not specifically of adding to the book, but adding to the prophecies of the book. This differs contextually from what Moses warns in Deut. 4:2. The commands Moses spoke relate to the Law and that specific covenant. The prophecies of Revelation refer to New Covenant (current covenant) principles/teachings. We, therefore, should not associate the Rev. warning so much with specific books, but rather with God’s revelation in his covenant association with us. That being said, the Revelation warnings should be applied not specifically to the book of Revelation, but (as the warning specifies) to the covenant prophecies related to New Covenant theology — all of the New Testament.

    As we consider the Mormon bible, we find that Mormon teachings alter the emphasis of New Covenant revelation and theology which (according to the NT) find ultimate fulfillment through Christ and the reconciliation provided through faith in his finished work of old covenant satisfaction and New Covenant initiation. Mormon theology not only provides altered emphasis but also teachings that conflict with New Covenant theology. Therefore, Mormon theology actually is in conflict with the New Covenant theology of the NT. That is why Christians affirming New Covenant theology cannot merge with Mormon theology and still be considered Christian by NT standards.

    You cannot say (as Lisa attempts to) that we can all rally around the person of Christ and ignore the fact that the teachings of Christ in New Covenant theology differ so dramatically from Mormon teachings. These opposing teachings have meaning relative to the very core of what it is to be Christian by New Covenant definition. What is at stake, then, is relationship with God. Acceptance of Mormon theology requires rejection of New Covenant theology. And that does violence to relationship with God.

    Comment by Dan | September 23, 2008 | Reply

  18. the most glaring error in mormon belief is the prophet. Jesus was our last prophet. he fulfilled the law and provided a way to communicate with God. Thus eliminating the need for future prophets. Jesus said that no one could come to the father except through him. Unfortunately the mormons are being deluded in their belief of a false prophet. I pray for them to see the truth.

    Comment by virginia slater | September 29, 2008 | Reply

  19. I have a question for you….if Jesus Christ is God, then why would he pray to himself in the Garden of Gethsemane?

    Comment by Yowza | March 1, 2009 | Reply

  20. Jesus is Second Person in the Triune Godhead. He wasn’t praying to Himself. He was praying to the Father, the First Person in the Triune Godhead.

    Comment by Will | March 2, 2009 | Reply

  21. My intent in first posting here was not to debate scripture. While I do think there is value in using scriptures to point out why a belief or doctrine exists, there is also a problem in that scriptures can be interpreted in different ways. I could lay out sound reasoning as to why we need prophets and use the Bible alone to show it, but someone would just counter it with other scriptures or different interpretations of the same scriptures and all my work would be pointless. This is something that each person needs to study out and pray about. That kind of knowledge and understanding comes from God, it won’t be proved by a few scriptures.

    My sole point in my original post was to express sadness that we can’t help eachother. My motivation at the time, was California’s Proposition 8. In fact, I found this site while googling some related information and then noticed this post on Mormons not Christians. I am in no way denying that we have huge differences in doctrine. That is a given. I think my biggest frustration is that many don’t just judge the Church’s doctrines, but they judge the relationship that the members have with God and Jesus Christ. I may believe that those who are not LDS are missing out on some of the truth, but I cannot say that you nor anywone else doesn’t have a very close and personal relationships with God. How could I know that?

    This is a privately owned site, I am assuming, and so you can obviously write what you want to, and of course, believe what you want to. I just don’t understand the need to put down the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    Thanks for letting me share.
    Lisa

    Comment by Lisa B. | March 6, 2009 | Reply

  22. Lisa, In my comments, I apologize for anything sounding as if it were an attack on you personally. I do not know (as God knows) the soul condition of anyone besides myself. However, I do believe with all my heart that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. That means when I look at differences in religions and doctrines, I compare them to the Bible. And we’re not talking merely about minor points of philosophy whose belief or disbelief really doesn’t matter to anyone’s human or spiritual condition. These are life and death issues–eternal life and eternal death issues. If I truly believe the Bible and the Bible tells me to speak the truth and to point out error, I have to do so as best I can. So while I am not going to judge someone’s spiritual relationship to God, I am going to say whether a person’s spoken belief or a religion is contrary to the Word of God.

    As to proving arguments through Scripture, yes, it is true that way too many people use the Bible like a reference book to defend or create some doctrinal belief that may be far from truth. That approach is wrong. Knowing the Bible as best we can in its full context to understand the plan of God in victory over sin, reconciliation through the sacrificial atonement of Christ, and restoration of relationship is important. Understanding where and how the prophets, the covenants, the law, the miracles, and everything else fits precisely within that plan must be our goal in understanding biblical truth.

    One of my objections to Mormonism is that it elevates something besides the Bible to the point of infallible truth. And the book of Mormon contains doctrinal contradiction with the Bible (in its full complete integrated revelation of the plan of God). Therefore, to ignore that and say I have no concern for your soul–believe what you want and possibly be condemned for all eternity because of it–is the most dastardly deed I could imagine myself doing to someone. We can all smile and pretend doctrinal differences don’t matter, but how can we pretend that when they matter to God? And if they matter to God, how can ignoring them accomplish any good?

    Comment by Dan | March 9, 2009 | Reply

  23. The whole issue hinges on whether or not Mormon theology is compatible with the clear teachings of the Bible. It’s not a matter of whether or not members of the LDS church are nice people, moral people, or sincere people. What does the Bible teach, and do they adhere to its teachings? The answer to this question is a resounding NO. The differ in what they believe on every major point of basic Christian theology. Sure, they use familiar Christian terminology, but what they mean by this terminolgy is scary. It’s like declaring you believe in Santa-Claus to the public, but actually believing he wears a green suit, lives in the South Pole, and hates children. For example, the LDS church believes there are billions of gods (polytheism), and that the God human beings worship was born of heavenly parents and progressed over time to be the god that He is today. So they believe the God of the Bible is a progressive being. But what does the Bible say about this? The answer is clearly given in Isaiah 43:10, where is states that no gods were formed before god, and that no gods will be formed after god. In other words, there’s only one God. And to make this even clearer God stated that he did not know of any other gods in existence. He is the eternal, self-existent, omnipotent God of all creation. To assign God a beginning, and to make Him into a progressive being, is one of the worse forms of blasphemy.

    This is just the tip of the iceburg when it comes to Mormon theological deficiencies.

    Comment by Pastor Pete | April 18, 2009 | Reply

  24. I would like to point out that the doctrine of Exhaltation in the LDS church is scripturally based:
    – Psalm 82:6 – “Ye are gods and all of you are children of the most high”
    – John 10:34 – “Is it not written in your law, ye are gods?”
    – Acts 17:29 – “Ye are the offspring of God.”
    – Romans 8:17 – “heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.”
    – 2 Corinthians 3:18 – “Changed to the same image from glory to glory.”
    – Galations 4:7 – “If a son, then an heir of God through Christ.”
    – 1 John 3:2 – “When He shall appear we shall be like Him.”
    – Revelations 3:21 – “Him that overcometh will sit with me in my throne.”

    Comment by Confused | May 5, 2009 | Reply

  25. The doctrine of Exhaltation may have its Scriptural basis, but the problem is the interpretation of those passages are heretical.

    God is a self-existent being who always was, always is, and always will be. God alone is Eternal. The rest of us are not. We are created beings. God cannot make us into Gods because it’s a contradiction of the very definition and character of what and who God is.

    Christ is begotten from the Father, but Christ was not created like the rest of humanity. This is where Mormon doctrine fails to understand. Christ IS God. He IS God in Man.

    Satan twisted Bible verses to deceive Christ. You, and Mormonism, do the same thing with those passages above – you twist the Bible verses to believe that we will become Gods, when other places in the Bible teaches differently.

    The very first temptation man faced was not the desire to eat the apple, but the desire to become Gods. That very first temptation that Satan used is now more broadly and forcefully manifested through evil philosophies and heretic movements like Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, humanism, and individualism.

    Comment by Will | May 6, 2009 | Reply

  26. Will is exactly correct in his assessing comment. For example, in his failing attempt to support LDS, “the dude” quotes 1 John 3:2 seeming to imply that we will be just the same in every respect as God. But an attribute of God is his infinite power. It is a logical impossibility to have two beings of infinite power. If god A is infinitely powerful, it would mean he has power over everything else, including god B. So god B could not be infinitely powerful without rendering god A NOT infinitely powerful. Thus, extracting 1 John 3:2 out of its biblical context to decide extrabiblically what it means has no force of persuasion for the LDS view.

    This is also why true, biblical Christianity maintains its biblical understanding of the Trinity as a monotheistic view. Tritheism (or any other polytheistic view)–with its 3 (or more) separate god concept–fails the test of logic on the point of infinity. Those who consider LDS ought to do so through exegesis of Scripture rather than eisegesis (imposing a view and interpretation on Scripture).

    Comment by Dan | May 8, 2009 | Reply

  27. Confused,

    I renamed you to “Confused” from your “the dude” because you’re obviously very confused about the Gospel message of Jesus Christ saving fallen sinners. And that one of the characteristics of “God” is that He is without sin. So how could God make us into Gods when we have a historical past of being sinful humans?

    I was thinking of renaming you as “child of Satan” because your father is clearly not the God of the Bible but the devil himself (John 8:44). But that would be judgmental for me to call you that because you just might be one of God’s elect who really does comes to know the Triune Godhead from hearing the real Gospel message that has been passed to the apostles to the early church to the reformers to the Church today.

    But for you to claim that the LDS is the only true church of God today (which I’m not posting your claim because that is utter heresy and bad church history), you truly are “confused.”

    Comment by Will | May 9, 2009 | Reply

  28. So basically what you are saying is that 95% of the rest of the world is doomed to eternal torment because they do not believe in the exact same version of Jesus as you do?

    Comment by Confused | May 9, 2009 | Reply

  29. Matthew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.”

    Comment by Will | May 9, 2009 | Reply

  30. How about, “Judge not and ye shall not be judged, Condemn not and ye shall not be condemned?”

    Comment by Confused | May 9, 2009 | Reply

  31. Ah, yes, the ever popular verse that even atheists know. Matthew 7:1, “Do not judge so that you will not be judged.”
    – Yet we have court judges who pass judgment on sinful behaviors of criminals, do we not? Are they violating Matthew 7:1?
    – Parents use judgment to discipline sinful conduct by their children, do they not? Can a child stand behind Matthew 7:1 to avoid a parent’s judgment?

    Matthew 7:1 is about not judging the motive of others, but we are to judge the behavior of others. We can’t read the hearts of men, but we can observe the resulting behavior and conduct.

    And if you read down a little further in Matthew 7, starting at v.15, Jesus instructs, “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits.”

    Here, Jesus instructs His disciples and us today that we are to make discerning judgments to identify false prophets from true prophets. And so the questions is, “Are Mormons false or true prophets?” Well, let’s go down the Gospel checklist:

    1. Do Mormons believe in the Trinity – God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit?
    – Matthew 28:19, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
    – 1 John 5:7, “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.”
    2. Do Mormons believe that Jesus, the Son of God, the Second Person in the Trinity, was begotten and not created?
    – John 8:58, “Jesus said unto them, ‘Verily, verily, I say unto you, ‘Before Abraham was, I AM.””
    – Exodus 3:14, “And God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM.’ And He said, ‘Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
    – Revelation 1:8, “‘I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,’ says the Lord, ‘who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.’”
    3. Do Mormons believe that the Holy Bible ALONE is the sole sufficient word of God, or do Mormons value the Mormon Bible and the Pearl of Great Price more than the Holy Bible?
    4. Do Mormons believe Jesus is a mere created angel who is a brother to Satan? Or do Mormons believe Jesus is the creator of the entire universe, including the creator of Satan, as the Bible teaches in Genesis 1-3?

    You are involved in a Satanic religion that teaches a false Gospel. I plead upon you, Confused, to believe on the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who is the only redemption for your sins, and to repent from your sins of following a false religion and ask that God would lead you to Jesus Christ through the true Gospel message.

    Comment by Will | May 9, 2009 | Reply

  32. One of the important doctrines to be considered an “Evangelical Christian” is the doctrine of the Trinity. Those who affirm this doctrine include Presbyterians, Southern Baptists, American Baptists, Reformed Baptists, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, Episcopalians, etc.

    Those who deny this doctrine (e.g. Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Modalists, Gnostics, Scientology, etc.) are not considered “Evangelical Christian” but are considered “heretics.” Mormon doctrine, such as their concept of God/Christ/Spirit, is not based out of historic Christian doctrine, but based out of historic Gnostic doctrine.

    Comment by Will | May 27, 2009 | Reply

  33. Here is an article on science and Mormonism that I published awhile back in my blog “Interlingua multilingue”:
    ………………………….

    Science and the Mormons

    The Mormons are a religious sect that emerged from Christianity in the United States in the Nineteenth Century. They added to the Bible their own scripture, the Book of Mormon, translated by Joseph Smith from an original text in a language he called Reformed Egyptian. According to the mythology of the Mormons, in 1827 the angel Moroni gave Smith these texts, which were engraved on golden tables. Smith could understand them without learning their language through the divine magic of two special lenses that he used to read them while he translated them.

    Smith and his followers were persecuted by traditional Christians, who forced them to travel slowly and with great sacrifices until they reached what is now Utah, where their descendants dominate the religious and social life of this American state.

    According to the Mormons, the Indians of the Americas came from Egypt more than 2,000 (two thousand) years ago. They used this myth to convert many Indians to their religion. “We were taught that all the blessings of our Hebrew ancestors made us a special people,” said Jose a Loyaza, a lawyer in Salt Lake City, the capital of Utah. “And this identity gave us a sense of transcendental affiliation, a special identity with God.” But Loyaza gradually learned that there was another outrageous irony to his faith.

    He rejected his religion after learning that evidence provided by comparative DNA studies between American Indians and Asians conclusively proved that the first humans that migrated to the Americas came not from the Middle East but from Asia.

    For the Mormons this genetic confirmation of the origin of the Indians in the Americas is a fundamental collision of science against religion. It is in direct conflict with the Book of Mormon, which, according to their religion, is a completely error-free historical work that must be interpreted literally.

    The Book of Mormon is also fundamentally racist. It narrates that a tribe of Hebrews from Jeruselem went to the Americas in 600 B.C. and split up into two groups, the Nephites and the Lamanites. The Nephites carried the “true” religion to the new world and were in constant conflict with the Lamanites, who practiced idolatry. The Nephites were white (in 1980 the Mormons changed the word to “pure”), and the Lamanites received from God “The curse of blackness.”

    The Book of Mormon also narrates that in 385 A.D. the Lamanites exterminated all the other Hebrews and became the principal ancestors of the American Indians. But the Mormons insist that if the Lamanites returned to the “true” religion (Mormonism, quite naturally), their skin would eventually become white like the skin of the Nephites that their ancestors had exterminated.

    But despite these outrageous racist insults, many Indians and Polynesians (who also, according to the Mormons, are the descendants of the Lamanites) converted to Mormonism instead of telling the Mormons to go fuck themselves. (Through some perverse mechanism in human psychology, these converts are like homosexual priests who support the Roman catholic church or other gay people who support any type of Christianity.)

    “The fiction that I was a Lamanite,” said Damon Kali, a lawyer in Sunnyvale, California, whose ancestors came from Polynesian islands, “was the principal reason that I converted to Mormonism.” He had been a missionary for the Mormans before he discovered that genetic evidence proved that the Lamanites were only a religious myth, and he could not continue his efforts to convert others to Mormonism.

    Officially the Mormon church insists that nothing in the Book of Mormon is incompatible with the genetic evidence. Some Mormons are now saying that the Levites were a small group of Hebrews that went to Central America and after many generations of marrying with the natives they met, their Hebrew DNA disappeared into the DNA of their neighbors.

    In 2002, officers of the church started a trial to excommunicate Thomas W. Murphy, a professor of anthropology at Edmonds Community College in Washington, an American state at the extreme northwest of the continental United States.

    His trial attracted a lot of attention in the American public communications media, which ridiculed the church and insisted that Murphy was the Galileo of Mormonism. The general contempt provoked by this publicity seriously embarrassed the officers of the church, and they stopped the trial.

    Comment by hkyson | June 25, 2009 | Reply


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